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	<title>Comments on: Social media framework for discussion</title>
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	<link>http://alexdc.org/2008/06/a-social-media-approach.html</link>
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	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Henriette Weber Kristiansen's Bookmarks Tagged With "social media"</title>
		<link>http://alexdc.org/2008/06/a-social-media-approach.html#comment-1300</link>
		<dc:creator>Henriette Weber Kristiansen's Bookmarks Tagged With "social media"</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 15:30:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alexdc.org/?p=439#comment-1300</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] Social media framework for discussion &#124; alex de carvalho [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://dev.wp-plugins.org/wiki/Kramer"><img src="http://alexdc.org/wp-content/plugins/kramer.php?kramer=gif-icon" class="technorati-balloon" alt="Kramer auto Pingback" style="border:0;" /></a>[...] Social media framework for discussion | alex de carvalho [...]</p>
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		<title>By: bokardo's Bookmarks on Delicious</title>
		<link>http://alexdc.org/2008/06/a-social-media-approach.html#comment-1241</link>
		<dc:creator>bokardo's Bookmarks on Delicious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2008 11:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alexdc.org/?p=439#comment-1241</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] Social media framework for discussion &#124; alex de carvalho SAVE [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
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		<title>By: Alex de Carvalho</title>
		<link>http://alexdc.org/2008/06/a-social-media-approach.html#comment-403</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex de Carvalho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 18:46:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alexdc.org/?p=439#comment-403</guid>
		<description>Michael,

Indeed. I think conditions are different enough from the web 1.0 to avoid a similar fate. More people are online; more have broadband; people have climbed up the experience ladder; websites are developed according to standards and best pratices; and technology, hosting, and hiring costs have gone down. Nonetheless, some very big threats remain on the horizon that could invalidate the above (including ending Net Neutrality).

I agree with your points about the agency-client relationship with respect to social media. Agencies need to show results in order to justify budgets. I also agree with Joel's conclusions, as evidenced by his "enlightening moments." I don't dispute any of that, and I think part of the solution is talking about social media without referring to social media. I often use new media, when talking to news organizations and colleges.

That being said, I think part of it is also creating a new framework for discussion, to escape the "campaign" and short-term results mentality. This is a new budget item. Perhaps resources need to be shifted from elsewhere to fill this budget. Perhaps a reorganization needs to happen done, to better align the organization with the new processes inherent to participating in social media. Either way, this is not business as usual, and acting like it is could lead to some unwanted (and sometimes well-publicized) consequences.

Finally, there is some cost in not participating in new media, which could be more clearly described to clients.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,</p>
<p>Indeed. I think conditions are different enough from the web 1.0 to avoid a similar fate. More people are online; more have broadband; people have climbed up the experience ladder; websites are developed according to standards and best pratices; and technology, hosting, and hiring costs have gone down. Nonetheless, some very big threats remain on the horizon that could invalidate the above (including ending Net Neutrality).</p>
<p>I agree with your points about the agency-client relationship with respect to social media. Agencies need to show results in order to justify budgets. I also agree with Joel&#8217;s conclusions, as evidenced by his &#8220;enlightening moments.&#8221; I don&#8217;t dispute any of that, and I think part of the solution is talking about social media without referring to social media. I often use new media, when talking to news organizations and colleges.</p>
<p>That being said, I think part of it is also creating a new framework for discussion, to escape the &#8220;campaign&#8221; and short-term results mentality. This is a new budget item. Perhaps resources need to be shifted from elsewhere to fill this budget. Perhaps a reorganization needs to happen done, to better align the organization with the new processes inherent to participating in social media. Either way, this is not business as usual, and acting like it is could lead to some unwanted (and sometimes well-publicized) consequences.</p>
<p>Finally, there is some cost in not participating in new media, which could be more clearly described to clients.</p>
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		<title>By: Social Media Club forms interim board &#124; alex de carvalho</title>
		<link>http://alexdc.org/2008/06/a-social-media-approach.html#comment-402</link>
		<dc:creator>Social Media Club forms interim board &#124; alex de carvalho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 17:31:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alexdc.org/?p=439#comment-402</guid>
		<description>[...] to be counted among the people invited to give new impetus to the Social Media Club. Through conversations with companies, organizations, local universities, and interactive agencies, I&#8217;ve experienced [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to be counted among the people invited to give new impetus to the Social Media Club. Through conversations with companies, organizations, local universities, and interactive agencies, I&#8217;ve experienced [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Tangeman</title>
		<link>http://alexdc.org/2008/06/a-social-media-approach.html#comment-401</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Tangeman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 16:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alexdc.org/?p=439#comment-401</guid>
		<description>I would only add to Ed's comments re the agencies "wanting to profit" out of social media, first that "agencies" is a very broad brushtroke ... there are large global agencies and there are three-person boutique agencies, and among them all there are some very savvy social media practitioners and PR bloggers who are sensitive to the need not to do with Web 2.0 what was previously done with Web 1.0.

Secondly, if we can put aside the dirty word "profit" for a moment, it would be helpful to consider that agencies and their clients -- precisely because they function in the world of business in our western market economies (which we may or may not like, but it's what we have to work with!) -- have to be concerned that they get a return  for their investment of energy and resources on social media. Ultimately for clients, this means that social media has to contribute to their ability to stay in the black while doing business ...  otherwise they would go broke and everyone is out of a job, right? To stay in the black, they have to have transactions with buyers of their goods and services. So, ultimately, they are always concerned that their investment of time and resources in social media helps to generate those transactions. And, the clients' concerns have to be the agency's concerns, as well. It's not all about the transaction ... but a lot of it is!

To further the discussion, I would point you to my friend Joel Postman's blog post on the subject at: http://blogs.eastwick.com/mediaartifacts/2007/08/02/get-that-social-media-guy-outta-here</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would only add to Ed&#8217;s comments re the agencies &#8220;wanting to profit&#8221; out of social media, first that &#8220;agencies&#8221; is a very broad brushtroke &#8230; there are large global agencies and there are three-person boutique agencies, and among them all there are some very savvy social media practitioners and PR bloggers who are sensitive to the need not to do with Web 2.0 what was previously done with Web 1.0.</p>
<p>Secondly, if we can put aside the dirty word &#8220;profit&#8221; for a moment, it would be helpful to consider that agencies and their clients &#8212; precisely because they function in the world of business in our western market economies (which we may or may not like, but it&#8217;s what we have to work with!) &#8212; have to be concerned that they get a return  for their investment of energy and resources on social media. Ultimately for clients, this means that social media has to contribute to their ability to stay in the black while doing business &#8230;  otherwise they would go broke and everyone is out of a job, right? To stay in the black, they have to have transactions with buyers of their goods and services. So, ultimately, they are always concerned that their investment of time and resources in social media helps to generate those transactions. And, the clients&#8217; concerns have to be the agency&#8217;s concerns, as well. It&#8217;s not all about the transaction &#8230; but a lot of it is!</p>
<p>To further the discussion, I would point you to my friend Joel Postman&#8217;s blog post on the subject at: <a href="http://blogs.eastwick.com/mediaartifacts/2007/08/02/get-that-social-media-guy-outta-here" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.eastwick.com/mediaartifacts/2007/08/02/get-that-social-media-guy-outta-here</a></p>
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		<title>By: Alex de Carvalho</title>
		<link>http://alexdc.org/2008/06/a-social-media-approach.html#comment-399</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex de Carvalho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 21:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alexdc.org/?p=439#comment-399</guid>
		<description>Ed, remember how we used to get viral emails, with photos and powerpoint attachments of funny stuff? Well, that's mostly gone for me (but my parents still get viral email from their friends), now that I'm on Facebook. Those viral videos now get sent through FunWall and SuperWall. But I think that even there some of the novelty is gone and I'm seeing less volume of viral stuff being sent.

Viral blocking? Interesting. I think that as lifestreaming services like SocialThing, FriendFeed, Jaiku, Tumblr and Facebook's own mini-feed catch on, there's less need to "push" stuff to your friends. Discovery occurs as you login and browse what your friends have been up to. I think this will slow down the viral uptake on most content, while extraordinary viral stuff will always be pushed. So over the long run, lifestreams raise the bar higher for viral content. That, plus the fact that we know how to find viral stuff: just look at what's being most viewed on YouTube and you've quickly caught up about what's popular for your watercooler talks with coworkers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed, remember how we used to get viral emails, with photos and powerpoint attachments of funny stuff? Well, that&#8217;s mostly gone for me (but my parents still get viral email from their friends), now that I&#8217;m on Facebook. Those viral videos now get sent through FunWall and SuperWall. But I think that even there some of the novelty is gone and I&#8217;m seeing less volume of viral stuff being sent.</p>
<p>Viral blocking? Interesting. I think that as lifestreaming services like SocialThing, FriendFeed, Jaiku, Tumblr and Facebook&#8217;s own mini-feed catch on, there&#8217;s less need to &#8220;push&#8221; stuff to your friends. Discovery occurs as you login and browse what your friends have been up to. I think this will slow down the viral uptake on most content, while extraordinary viral stuff will always be pushed. So over the long run, lifestreams raise the bar higher for viral content. That, plus the fact that we know how to find viral stuff: just look at what&#8217;s being most viewed on YouTube and you&#8217;ve quickly caught up about what&#8217;s popular for your watercooler talks with coworkers.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Toro</title>
		<link>http://alexdc.org/2008/06/a-social-media-approach.html#comment-398</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Toro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 21:12:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alexdc.org/?p=439#comment-398</guid>
		<description>That's an interesting narrative.  There's tension between the premise of social media and the agencies who try to profit from it.

It sounds like agencies are interested in one-night stands whereas companies should be more interested in long-term relationships.  (A metaphor that shines new light on the word "viral".)

Is the agency focus on virulence hurting the social web?

I would say yes.  And your experiences point to storm clouds on the horizon for Web 2.0.  Automatic viral campaign blocking will become a feature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s an interesting narrative.  There&#8217;s tension between the premise of social media and the agencies who try to profit from it.</p>
<p>It sounds like agencies are interested in one-night stands whereas companies should be more interested in long-term relationships.  (A metaphor that shines new light on the word &#8220;viral&#8221;.)</p>
<p>Is the agency focus on virulence hurting the social web?</p>
<p>I would say yes.  And your experiences point to storm clouds on the horizon for Web 2.0.  Automatic viral campaign blocking will become a feature.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex de Carvalho</title>
		<link>http://alexdc.org/2008/06/a-social-media-approach.html#comment-397</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex de Carvalho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 19:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alexdc.org/?p=439#comment-397</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Linda, I had checked out your site about brand monitoring services and I'd like to talk to you at some point about that.

Michael, Henriette, I've been so busy this past month; thanks for you comments.

Ed, thanks for stopping by and for your comments. This post is not necessarily written for the layman, and is more directed at the interactive agencies with whom I've been having conversations. Many times the focus is on "how do we create viral campaigns", whereas social media is really fundamentally about something else. In my post, I create a framework for discussing how to use social media beyond just the viral campaign.

However, the agency-client relationship is so often about the next "campaign," and agencies feel the pressure to bring back charts that show website visits are spiking up with each campaign. Clients are looking to go beyond advertising, and agencies are trying to crack the code of social media in order to present something new to the client. Because they are in campaign mode, they naturally want to create viral stuff. This is how companies and agencies get targeted by the hucksters you mention. For example, check out this TechCrunch post about questionable techniques for seeding viral campaigns:
http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/11/22/the-secret-strategies-behind-many-viral-videos/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Linda, I had checked out your site about brand monitoring services and I&#8217;d like to talk to you at some point about that.</p>
<p>Michael, Henriette, I&#8217;ve been so busy this past month; thanks for you comments.</p>
<p>Ed, thanks for stopping by and for your comments. This post is not necessarily written for the layman, and is more directed at the interactive agencies with whom I&#8217;ve been having conversations. Many times the focus is on &#8220;how do we create viral campaigns&#8221;, whereas social media is really fundamentally about something else. In my post, I create a framework for discussing how to use social media beyond just the viral campaign.</p>
<p>However, the agency-client relationship is so often about the next &#8220;campaign,&#8221; and agencies feel the pressure to bring back charts that show website visits are spiking up with each campaign. Clients are looking to go beyond advertising, and agencies are trying to crack the code of social media in order to present something new to the client. Because they are in campaign mode, they naturally want to create viral stuff. This is how companies and agencies get targeted by the hucksters you mention. For example, check out this TechCrunch post about questionable techniques for seeding viral campaigns:<br />
<a href="http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/11/22/the-secret-strategies-behind-many-viral-videos/" rel="nofollow">http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/11/22/the-secret-strategies-behind-many-viral-videos/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ed Toro</title>
		<link>http://alexdc.org/2008/06/a-social-media-approach.html#comment-396</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Toro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:57:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alexdc.org/?p=439#comment-396</guid>
		<description>This was difficult to read.  It lacks the passion you convey when presenting this type of information live. A video or slide show with audio might be better.

Language, how you talk to your customers, is an important part of social media as well.

Maybe a narrative would help.  Talk specifically about how your "countless conversations" and experience informed this post.  I get the impression that you've had some difficulty selling social media to an "unsure" audience.  Isn't that why we need a framework like this?  Instead of just saying they're unsure, say, "So I was talking to the public relations guy at a company recently and he asked me, 'So what's up with all this social media stuff.'  So I asked him to describe it and he said, 'I don't know, like blogs?'"  And then you make up some imaginary exchange between you and him during which you describe your framework.

One of the most salient points I've heard you make was during a recent presentation at UM.  You showed a screenshot of an unscrupulous website selling social media tools for ridiculous amounts.  "We'll make you a blog for $2000" and stuff like that.  That says a lot.  It's one thing to be unsure, but quite another to be a naive target for hucksters.  The assurance that comes from understanding what social media is gets your foot in the door.  The benefits to your bottom-line come soon after.

That slide was memorable.  From that specific example I can infer your general point (or imagine a good one and attribute it to you).  This post is missing the "$2000 blog".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was difficult to read.  It lacks the passion you convey when presenting this type of information live. A video or slide show with audio might be better.</p>
<p>Language, how you talk to your customers, is an important part of social media as well.</p>
<p>Maybe a narrative would help.  Talk specifically about how your &#8220;countless conversations&#8221; and experience informed this post.  I get the impression that you&#8217;ve had some difficulty selling social media to an &#8220;unsure&#8221; audience.  Isn&#8217;t that why we need a framework like this?  Instead of just saying they&#8217;re unsure, say, &#8220;So I was talking to the public relations guy at a company recently and he asked me, &#8216;So what&#8217;s up with all this social media stuff.&#8217;  So I asked him to describe it and he said, &#8216;I don&#8217;t know, like blogs?&#8217;&#8221;  And then you make up some imaginary exchange between you and him during which you describe your framework.</p>
<p>One of the most salient points I&#8217;ve heard you make was during a recent presentation at UM.  You showed a screenshot of an unscrupulous website selling social media tools for ridiculous amounts.  &#8220;We&#8217;ll make you a blog for $2000&#8243; and stuff like that.  That says a lot.  It&#8217;s one thing to be unsure, but quite another to be a naive target for hucksters.  The assurance that comes from understanding what social media is gets your foot in the door.  The benefits to your bottom-line come soon after.</p>
<p>That slide was memorable.  From that specific example I can infer your general point (or imagine a good one and attribute it to you).  This post is missing the &#8220;$2000 blog&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Solitary Mobility vs. Mobile Sociality &#124; alex de carvalho</title>
		<link>http://alexdc.org/2008/06/a-social-media-approach.html#comment-371</link>
		<dc:creator>Solitary Mobility vs. Mobile Sociality &#124; alex de carvalho</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 17:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] Social media framework for discussion  [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
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